faileas: (Default)
aefenglom log posting account ([personal profile] faileas) wrote in [community profile] middaeg2021-01-14 12:48 pm

Player Plot: The Salvation of Geardagas, Part 1



Event Log: January, The Salvation of Geardagas: Part 1




The Evergreen Circle


    Something is happening in Aefenglom.

    A rash of disappearances has finally caught the attention of the authorities, but only thanks to a strange twist: a handful of the missing individuals are starting to turn up again, and not as they should be. It began with a harpy. After a week of nothing she returned, fully transformed into a Shade and too far gone to save. The same happened with a trader the next day. And the next with a witch. All three were infected, albeit to varying degrees, and only one of them was able to be brought back from the brink. Naturally, this is a huge cause for concern.

    There's little sign that the Bright Wall is damaged and none of the victims were known to have left the city. Questioning the survivor, Owain, doesn't produce any leads either as he can't remember anything before his disappearance. It's only after he's had some time to recover that he notices something off. As the blackening of the Cwyld fades, a small tattoo on his palm that wasn't there before becomes visible.

    To the concern of the Coven, it's a symbol that's familiar to them as the emblem of a rising spiritual movement favoured by the wealthy called the Evergreen Circle, led by a witch called Cillian Alder. Their purpose, he claims, is to provide hope through interrogating the Cwyld from a scholarly and philosophical perspective. In spite of this, Alder has developed more of a cult-like following than anything. Mirrorbound of standing (business owners, members of parliament, public figures, etc) might have already received one of their pamphlets.

    Naturally, it's an incredibly sensitive subject. The Evergreen Circle has been entirely peaceful up until now, and with such influential and powerful figures among its numbers, the Coven is reluctant to make any outright accusations. Instead, the task of investigating them has been covertly passed to the Mirrorbound. As outsiders, they stand less of a chance of causing political unrest. However, they explicitly warn against taking any hostile actions for the time being: this is an information-gathering request, nothing more. They can provide basic information about the Evergreen Circle meetings but that's about it.


    a. Preaching to the Choir (Every Friday Evening, Mid-Ieneuer to Early Feoveuer)


    Cillian Alder
    Art by Rachel

      The hall is buzzing. Though there aren't even enough people here to fill the place, everyone seems to be bubbling with excitement, exchanging loud greetings and introductions. They're particularly friendly to newcomers and are quick to offer up their experiences with the group: "Cillian is a truly free thinker!" "I haven't felt so positive about our future for a long time." "There’s a real sense of hope and community here in the Circle."

      The meeting convenes at 8 o’clock sharp and silence descends upon the room as a figure takes the stage. With his commanding presence and charismatic smile there's no doubt about who this is: Cillian Alder. A man in his late fifties with greying hair, he speaks with an accent crisp as cut glass and a strong voice, no doubt amplified by some kind of spell to reach around the room. He's hypnotising, those cool blue eyes of his impossible to look away from and piercing in their intensity.

      "How wonderful to see you all tonight, both familiar and unfamiliar faces alike! You are all welcome. I have only one request." He brings his hands together with a smile. "That you keep your hearts open. How else might our minds grow Evergreen?"

      Alder's speech is nothing if not passionate. He paces and proselytises, responding to the audience's interruptions and cheers with enormous enthusiasm. Throughout, his message is clear.

      "Who are we to immediately decry the Cwyld as a curse? Fear of the unknown, of what we have yet to control, can only hold us back! We must instead seek to understand it and be at peace with its presence! This is a test of our conviction! Our will to survive!"

      It goes on for the better part of an hour and, afterwards, he descends into the audience to receive their praise and questions with the gracious smile of a beloved king. He might even turn that magnanimous presence on you, affording you a few crucial moments of conversation (limited to 2 RNG characters).

      Will you stick around to find out more or try and slip backstage while everyone is distracted? For such a warm, welcoming atmosphere, there seems to be a lot of security around the doors leading back there so it might take some quick thinking to get through without conflict. Those who are caught will have to face the consequences, but the results might be… unfavorable.

    b. Spirited Away (late-Ieneuer to mid Feoveuer)

      Those less inclined to subterfuge won't have any problems finding trouble to get into either. As the month goes on, more and more people disappear, and that might even include Mirrorbound. Whether you're intercepting a kidnapping or fighting off your own, you're more likely to get caught up in it the longer the month goes on.

      It's easy enough to fight off the attackers but nigh impossible to actually catch or identify one: each is dressed in black and smells of the tell-tale decay of the Cwyld. But even assuming you do manage to apprehend one, they will refuse to talk in anything but vague, confusing comments about salvation and new beginnings.

    c. Cast Out (mid-Ieneuer to early Feoveuer)

      Likewise, the number of locals who have been abducted and released continues to rise. The victims, anywhere from badly infected to fully transformed into Shades, require subduing, healing and, in the most dire of circumstances, permanently dealt with before they can hurt anyone. Without exception, they're aggressive, reacting violently to attempts to heal as well as harm them and there are no discernable patterns when it comes to victims. However, the eagle-eyed might spot the Evergreen Circle's symbol on some of their palms if they're not too heavily corrupted.


    [ ooc: More information about the event can be found on the plotting post along with comments for questions, and RNG sign-ups for directly interacting with Alder! ]

worldcleansing: (Light4)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-26 04:38 am (UTC)(link)
[ The implication isn't lost on Light. He's been called a murderer and much worse things in his home world by people who can't really understand the safety and peace he'll one day bring to them all. Normally, he can shrug them off. Admittedly, L managed to strike the right kind of note on television, but Light isn't prone to making the same mistake twice. ]

Hmn. Ideally, there are a lot of differences between a priest and a cult leader, motives included. Sometimes, it's not always easy to tell what is a church and a cult. Tomorrow, we'll find out if that's true for this one, too.

[ Sex isn't any more difficult for him to fake than the things he fakes on a daily basis. It's also not very often a natural urge. His first few months in this world were spent learning magic, as if to cram years of knowledge in just a few months. He'll need to start building relationships now that he has a good foundation. The one person he's closest to...

Well, he sits across from him, and that's a bit more complicated. Until very recently, Light really assumed L had no sex drive. It would be a lie to say he hadn't thought of how that would be useful for him, even if they are allies in this world. Myr is Light's only real point of comparison, and L knows Light and Myr to be two very different people. Still, he also knows there's an intense connection between the two of them, one beyond the bond. They were both splashes of color in a world full of grays. Knowing L, that sense of danger and challenge would be a draw, not a deterrent. ]


Good, we can add that to the list of things that would blow their cover. Besides, isn't there a saying? Dance with the one who brought you?
hearthebell: (Put on your doll faces)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-26 05:32 am (UTC)(link)
[L cants his head.]

I'm not sure. The magic of this world occasionally translates things in unexpected ways... you're surely speaking Japanese right now, and I'm speaking something else, but we understand each other perfectly.

[Man of mystery that he is, L doesn't say what he's speaking. He's so multilingual, he might actually be unable to assume with perfect confidence.]

What I'm saying is... I'm not really familiar with the phrase. Could you elaborate, Light?
worldcleansing: (tumblr_inline_pa24uvHfPo1soi3e4_100)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-26 05:40 am (UTC)(link)
It's an English saying so I said it in English, even if it's hard to tell with the magic translation.

[ Languages is one area in which L has the advantage, but Light can speak perfect English in addition to Japanese. It does make him wonder if L simply switches between languages all day. He can see L playing small games that no one will ever know about. ]

I don't really know the history of the phrase, but I think it used to be taken literally. A girl would go to a dance with a guy but end up more interested in somebody else. I know it happens in movies, but I don't know how often it was a real problem. Now, a lot of people use it to mean you should leave with the person you came with.

So, I came with you, and I'll leave with you.
hearthebell: will credit if found (I'm going to make it through this year)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-26 05:49 am (UTC)(link)
I see; that makes sense.

[So much that it's possible he was pretending not to know, just to hear Light's explanation, glean a little more about his intended (and unintended) meaning from the additional words.]

The handcuffs we wore made it here, you know. I could always bring them along so there's absolutely no mistake that we came together.
worldcleansing: (Image138)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-26 01:33 pm (UTC)(link)
[ It's not a possibility Light rules out. As someone born and raised in Japan, who hasn't actually traveled to the states, he only knows it because of the exposure he sought out online when assuring he perfected his English. L's likely worked more than one case in the States.

Light's much more interested in the revelation. L's from a slightly more advanced time so he wouldn't have been wearing the cuffs, and the detective is far too skilled to let it slip he was lying. ]


They did? How?
hearthebell: will credit if found (And she feeds you tea and oranges)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-26 02:47 pm (UTC)(link)
It's happened several times. Artifacts and items from Mirrorbound worlds have come through in a seemingly random assortment, running the gamut from essential to utterly useless, though in general, they seemed connected to particular Mirrorbound.

[He sets his coffee down again, sitting back against the softest part of the armchair and looking up thoughtfully at the ceiling.]

I'm not much for sentimental possessions, and I suppose it was never properly mine, but it would have been something, if the notebook had made it here. I'd have liked to study it more.

[He shrugs.]

It still could, perhaps.
worldcleansing: (tumblr_inline_pa24uoNoua1soi3e4_100)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-26 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
[ Which means if it does show up, there's a good argument for it being tied to Light. L draws the perfect picture without actually saying the words. The items may be random, but they're connected to the Mirrorbound who receives them. That's easy enough to explain. A connection doesn't necessarily dictate ownership, but of course it doesn't end there. He then makes it clear he knows he isn't the direct owner and would find it a bit odd if he did receive it without being the owner. ]

We didn't get long to really study it, did we? I have a lot of questions myself, but if it still holds the power to kill, I wouldn't want it to show up. If it leaves our hands, it could be a disaster. That kind of power can corrupt all too easily.

[ It's still a very nice weapon to have, and Light isn't easily corrupted. He handled it in Japan, he can do so here. Still, it's highly likely it will work without the Shinigami, even if the Shinigami weren't directly killing. ]

There's no obvious trigger for what made them appear?
hearthebell: (I hope I become a ghost)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-26 03:52 pm (UTC)(link)
[L is well aware of what he said, and didn't say. Even when he's not looking directly at Light, there is vigilance, so constant as to probably feel like a baseline state, through their Bond.

He sighs shallowly.]


If there was an obvious or reliable trigger, I think it goes without saying that more people would be acquiring their preferred weapons and technology from back home. The potential for profit alone is ridiculous, and no one with an appreciation for opportunity would fail to exploit it.

[Not L, so much. For all that he had amassed his own ridiculous fortune back home, it had seemed almost incidental, a side effect of just being that good at his job and having the proper manager to direct his talent through the correct channels. Working alongside L has probably starkly illustrated to Light just how important the role of a handler really was, because left to his own devices, what's interesting to him will draw L, regardless of its potential for making money.

He knows that other people are greedy, though. Excessively so, well beyond the means for standard or comfortable survival. That's usually a pretty good metric to measure what's going on in the world: whether or not people can profit off it, and if they are.]


At any rate, I'm certain that the handcuffs are the same ones worn during the case. Down to the last hairline scratch in the hardware, they're fairly unmistakable.
worldcleansing: (Default)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-26 07:16 pm (UTC)(link)
[ There's no doubt it's entirely intentional. Just as L will keep playing, he'll always have a partner in Light. He can't be convicted here, and there's no proof that could surface so far from home, but his defenses are as high as ever. Even as their relationship draws ever closer, that chase is as big a part as any other element. Maybe bigger. ]

I don't really have any intention of wearing them again and even if I did, I don't think playing the role of the couple into public sexual bondage is the right cover for our story. That would win us their attention, but it's not really the kind we're aiming to receive.
hearthebell: (Go ask Alice when she's 10 feet tall)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-26 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
[L doesn't laugh, although there is a slight, startled jolt through the Bond that is very much like the involuntary tug of a chain. For all that neither of them are wearing handcuffs literally, in so many ways they never came off.]

No... at best it would be distracting, even if we're not overly concerned with presenting ourselves professionally.

[An absurd thing to entertain or treat with any measure of dignity, and yet they're discussing it like it's a serious prospect.]

The attention we're "aiming to receive" is a good thing to establish, as succinctly as possible. It's likely enough to say that we're Bonded, to explain our association, if that's something we care to divulge. If they know, it might result in them trying to separate us more quickly. They could assume an effort to triangulate.
Edited 2021-01-26 20:42 (UTC)
worldcleansing: (Image121)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-27 08:58 am (UTC)(link)
That can be useful. If they think their time to convince us is limited, they're more likely to move quickly. I don't think it's something we should offer without prodding. I don't usually introduce myself as Light Yagami, bond to Linden, but if we're asked we can tell them the truth.

[ Light sits back, hand going to his chin. ]

In fact, we should play up the bond. I don't have a reputation or reach here yet. [ Yet. Light plans on changing it. He'd just spent all of his time amassing savings and learning magic. It's time to start amassing connections, too. ] But you're part of a Council that has some say in certain places. You're the skeptic. Your bond, however, is more willing to listen, and he has your ear. The story will keep either of us from being completely singled out, and we'll be able to compare stories once we're home, if we're separated.
hearthebell: (Watching all the resurrection junkies)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-27 09:33 pm (UTC)(link)
If we go together and get into any kind of conversation, and seem invested in our respective willingness to consider a new religion, it's reasonable to assume that the nature of the relationship could come up. In fact, we should assume that it will, and that the revelation will raise suspicions. More so, if someone has noticed that we're in business together as PIs.

[It's not L's intention to sound like he's already getting into character as the designated cynic, but he takes notice of when new Mirrorbound businesses open up. A church interested in recruiting and any form of philanthropy would probably also take notice.]

Convincing them that we are there in good faith could well be our biggest obstacle to overcome. I certainly wouldn't trust us, knowing what I do about our motives from the inside, and I'm not sure that I would knowing what's possible to find out about us.

[They're not exactly working anonymously, in Aefenglom, behind the comfort of a computer screen.]
worldcleansing: (Default)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-28 03:32 am (UTC)(link)
The risk of that is a lot smaller. We held back on advertising until we wrap up our current cases, and I approached our current clients. There shouldn't be word of mouth yet. It might delay our grand opening a little, but that's okay. This should have our attention. We're lucky with our timing. If this happened a month later, it would have been a lot harder to convince them.

They'll be at their most confident, too. This isn't a new church, but they're finally gaining traction. We can ride that high. I'll be able to convince them I'm curious enough and between the two of them, we can make them decide we're worthy targets. The most important part of the act is to make sure I'm not too eager and you're not too against the idea. It won't work if I come off as disingenuous or if you come off as unmovable.
hearthebell: (See these people they lie)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-28 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)
[Though it's representative of some kind of quiet, subtle admission of defeat, L is truly grateful that Light has the business sense that he lacks. Any question he raises on that front is likely to have been thought of by the younger man already, even addressed by him and already taken care of. It's the kind of thing Watari would have handled for him; it's the kind of thing he's glad not to have to think about or learn in this place, effectively going from the skillset that lets him soar to one that relegates him to a set of novice training wheels.]

That is good luck. Do you feel we should practice? Different viewpoints, but neither so set in stone that they are absolutely immovable?

[He really, really wants to talk about Kira, and "volunteer" Light to play the devil's advocate.]

We tend to be rather strong in our convictions, is all. A more moderate attitude would be new ground.
worldcleansing: (tumblr_inline_pb7s8cRBw51soi3e4_100)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-29 06:15 am (UTC)(link)
[ They both have their talents and weaknesses. L's is his experience whereas Light's has only semi-recently emerged into the adult world. It's led to mistakes on his end, mistakes he doesn't repeat but it doesn't undo the past. Their ability to meet each other as equals while still covering for the other's flaws is one of the reasons they make such a perfect duo.

Even now, Light is sure he can handle the acting just fine. He's played much more difficult roles, but L hasn't had to be on the front line very often. It isn't a bad idea. ]


If it would help you become more comfortable.

[ Light doesn't deny his strong convictions. It's not a flaw. ]

We do have to make it natural.
hearthebell: (Wanted to be a better adversary)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-29 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
[Considering the preparation and difficulty that came with just talking to the Parliamentary ladies about the prospect of funding the orphanage, this would probably be a good idea even if L didn't have some kind of ulterior motive in mind. Just because he's a bit determined to get his Kira fix doesn't mean that this can't honestly benefit them.]

Let's start with the template and the spirituality we're familiar with, then. The notion of something to worship, whether it's a deity or an idea... something to sacrifice self for, in the interest of a clearer understanding of the world and a more purposeful existence. Would you agree that that's what most people are searching for when they open their hearts to a religion? My take has always been that gods are born when something is wrong with the world and people are struggling to cope.
worldcleansing: (laying on bed;)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-29 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree, but I'd also add that hope has a place, too. As humans, our power is limited. Religion is a way to give a sense of control over things we can't control. In the past, they prayed for sun and rain. Today, we pray for recovery or good luck. Either way, you're right in that it's usually for people who need a way to handle whatever they're facing, be it a lack of direction or the illness of somebody they care about.

That's where I'd stand on my argument. If you're doing everything you can, is it so wrong to hope for something bigger than you to handle what you can't do? If you got hurt right now, I could heal you. Back in our world, that alone would get me a religion. I wouldn't encourage doctors to stop practicing since I couldn't heal every person who needed me, but I wouldn't look down on them for leaving the worst cases for me. We'd work in tandem, with them sending the terminal cases my way and handling the cases within their skill level.

How is that different than what's being asked here? If they have more power and more knowledge, why shouldn't I help them? I need to make sure I trust in what they're saying, but if I do, it wouldn't make sense not to support their message.
hearthebell: (He's a sportsman and a shepherd)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-30 07:00 am (UTC)(link)
[L finds it interesting that Light keeps his notions of prayer limited to small and mundane and familial things. No grand overarching concepts of reshaping a rotten world, here. Is that intentional? Does Light realize that L is specifically fishing for this?

Probably; they are Bonded, after all, and there's only so much L can conceal about something this close to the core of his being.]


That goes two ways. When you put what's beyond your control into the hands of a higher power, you're giving implicit permission for that higher power to take, as well as give. I don't find the notion that some higher will can deliberately screw me over to be tremendously comforting, or hopeful. Then again... I've been fortunate, in my life, to have my will carried out more often than not. Most of the time, I haven't yearned for a higher power, but tripped over lesser ones and the red tape they wielded like talismans.

I would ask about the metric you're using to decide that they do have more power and knowledge. Do you need hope so much that a charismatic voice can deliver it with virtually any message, or do you feel empowered enough to think that you're doing OK for yourself? What is Alder doing that you, yourself, couldn't do?
worldcleansing: (tumblr_inline_pa24v1P9wC1soi3e4_100)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-01-30 07:25 am (UTC)(link)
You said it yourself: you've had some degree of luck. I've been lucky too, but I know that not everyone has. People are being hurt by things they can't control. Nature's a good example, even today. Japan is known for our earthquakes. If we have the money, we can take some precautions but even then, a big enough earthquake can make most buildings fall.

Or, on a smaller, personal level, look at crime.

[ If Light knows what L is doing, he seems willing to dance just a bit closer to the fire. Or, maybe he knows it'd be more suspicious not to mention it at all. ]

Someone you care about goes missing. The police are doing their best, but there are few clues, and it's reaching a dead end. You need someone to help you. In this case, it's probably another human, somebody with the same power as you, who's hurt you. People are being hurt all of the time, and if the diety was cruel enough to join in, they wouldn't need your permission.

As for me? I'm not hopeless, but I'm not in full control of my situation either. I was pulled into this world against my will, and I don't know when I'll go back. I'm working to find myself here while knowing I could wake up in Japan tomorrow. We're already in the hands of something else, something that pulled us here. I want to understand it more, but I'm not so desperate that I'd trade down. I just hope I can find what I'm looking for there.
hearthebell: (I hope I become a ghost)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-01-31 04:09 am (UTC)(link)
[L doesn't outwardly react to Light's segue. He's excited, though; his heart beats more quickly, there's a lift in his chest that is lighter and more eager. This subject always shakes what's languid and bolsters what could otherwise grow stagnant and dusty.]

No human is in full control of his situation. Regardless of where they exist, or how they got there, that existence could cease at any moment. I just don't understand why acceptance is more difficult than inventing a fiction. To me, that is trading down.
worldcleansing: (Image150)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-02-01 08:52 am (UTC)(link)
A fiction. If you're assuming there really is nothing, it won't make sense. Religion isn't about accepting what you think is makebelieve. It's about putting faith in something you can't necessarily see or touch. The religion here gives you something more tangible.

Science can't explain everything, not yet. There are a lot of cases of people who should have died surviving what should have killed them, for example. We assume there is a scientific explanation behind it. Maybe there is. Maybe it's something bigger than science. You can't see their side if you're labeling their beliefs as fiction from the start.
hearthebell: (See these people they lie)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-02-02 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
If it can't be proven, aside from some ethereal concept of belief, then it's functionally a fiction. Isn't faith just a decision to ignore a lack of evidence, no matter how sincere it might be?

[It's likely unclear how much of this is L engaging in the game, and how much he sincerely believes what he's positing. If it's the latter, he sure did spend a lot of time believing, without solid evidence, that Light Yagami was Kira... but he's never exactly claimed that he wasn't a hypocrite.]

Science couldn't explain the notebook, but we saw the Shinigami with our own eyes. We observed a direct link between a name written, and a heartbeat cut short. I would compare it to not knowing exactly how a gun works, but seeing the gun, witnessing someone shot, and understanding at least that a bullet entered their body and caused damage and bleeding. It's not a complete picture on a micro level, but it's usually enough to draw a complete conclusion, for the purposes of a detective who is interested in the crime on a macro level.

In any case. I think it's fair to say that things are beyond science, or bigger than science, which is only a record of humanity's ability to observe and understand the universe. Eventually, a telescope and a microscope will reach their limits, but that doesn't mean that nothing exists beyond those limits. They're being pushed continuously as innovation progresses; we pushed it ourselves, by making contact with a god of death and questioning her.

[As disquieting as that entire experience was, and as much as it shook his view of the universe before Aefenglom shook it further, he's in awe of what it was and represented. And to his credit, he doesn't claim to understand more than what little he does on that front.]

If I don't know how a gun works, and see the gun, witness a person shot, and the damage caused by the bullet, the situation has not fundamentally changed... but my understanding of it will be affected if I don't make room in my mind for a necessary sequence of events that set the bullet in motion, beginning with the will of a human being.

Rem was tight-lipped about so much. But there's a marked difference, isn't there? When Shinigami use the notebook, they'd have no reason to write elaborate causes of death, such as the apparent will of the human being... but Kira took advantage of it, purely to throw me off. The reactive demonstration of ego was all the proof I needed to know that Kira was human, and the self-important placement of ego in faith is evidence, to me, that it's every bit as much of a human invention.
worldcleansing: (deep in thought)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-02-04 01:49 am (UTC)(link)
That's a narrow worldview that we lose when while we're still children. By that logic, the Shinigami would have been fictional before we knew about them. Magic would have been fictional before we came here. They didn't suddenly come into existence because we discovered that they existed. Even before we were able to observe them, the Shinigami were still killing people. Even now, we're in a world where we can create fire and manipulate energy in ways science can't explain, and you're questioning that something higher than that exists?

[ Light takes a sip of his coffee. ]

I hope this isn't going to be the argument you use to them, or I'll have a lot of explaining to do considering that only two of us should know someone named Kira exists.

[ 'I know what you're doing'. ]

We agree Kira's human, but I think we both agreed on it before we knew the Death Gods existed. That doesn't change my theory, but I wouldn't base it on the assumption that they would never use the Note to play with humans. We haven't met enough Death Gods to profile all of them.
hearthebell: (See these people they lie)

[personal profile] hearthebell 2021-02-04 02:45 am (UTC)(link)
Learning of the existence of Shinigami was one more confirmed step in the sequence of events where many of our conclusions were still sound. That was the only point I wished to illustrate, by mentioning them.

[Untrue, but Light knows that already.]

Concerning theoretical fiction... I qualified with "functionally" for a reason. Consider that if I want to prove that something does exist, all I have to do is find one example to present, and my job is finished. However, for me to say that something does not exist, unless I can show you every corner of the universe to infinitely large and small degrees, it's impossible to prove. The faithful tend to take advantage of this, in their arguments. The unscrupulous, in turn, take advantage of the faithful, because they recognize where the breakdown in logic has occurred. They recognize that there is an empty, open place that will respond to the declaration "here I am". It will complete some kind of a picture, and feel like an answer. It doesn't actually matter whether the piece completes the picture, mind you... just that it fits, and our own confirmation bias and backwards rationalization will finish the job from there, smoothing the edges and repainting an entire section, if necessary, to form something cohesive.

Have you ever listened to multiple eyewitness accounts, each of them telling something slightly different, and then understanding what's going on when you see video footage of the incident for yourself? So much can influence a human's understanding and perception of an event, or an idea... but the truth is objective. It's above pretension and ego. It's no coincidence that, to many, "the truth" and "God" are synonymous. Both of those things might be beyond our understanding, but only one of them is something we can observe directly, to any degree at all. By the way...

[Segue, right back to where Light might expect it to go]

I don't view the Shinigami as proof that God exists. An intelligent, extra-dimensional apex predator fits just as well. Those categories can be applied, once something is observable, and that's also something the faithful take advantage of in their arguments.
Edited 2021-02-04 02:52 (UTC)
worldcleansing: (casual sideeye)

[personal profile] worldcleansing 2021-02-04 10:05 am (UTC)(link)
I agree with your logic, but not entirely with the conclusions. It's much easier to prove something exists than to prove it doesn't. Religions aren't the only group that relies on this. Urban legends and ghost hunters use the same logic. It's why it's so difficult to argue with them. Even if you can disprove some of their evidence, it's not enough.

I also agree that confirmation bias is a big problem when listening to eyewitness accounts. Instead of looking at the evidence and arriving at a conclusion, we decide what conclusion we want to reach and then twist the events to fit. I'd also argue that it can work both ways. We can want to assume something doesn't exist and thus ignore the possibility.

You say 'God'. Unless it's the translation, that seems more specific than the existence of a god in general. The Christian God is the most famous example, but we know a lot of religions worship different gods. Which is a contradiction in itself. I'll give you that we both know we're not talking about a Death God so I won't say their existence automatically means a god does exist and therefore they're right.

One common trait of a god is that he can see all. We practice Divination on a near-daily basis. He has the power to control the weather. He can heal the sick. Evocation. Storms on that level might be outside of our skill level, but like you've pointed out with the Shinigami being the apex predator, it doesn't mean there isn't someone more powerful above what we can do. Enchantment takes away free will, Abjuration could allow someone to walk through fire, Levitation could allow them to walk on water, and Necromancy can bring back the dead. I'm not an expert on religion but considering what I see here, it's become a lot harder to say the usual traits of a god can't exist.

Unfortunately for you, your argument is harder because I'm not going into the cult claiming to fully believe in their mission. I'm going after having seen enough to be open to the possibility. While it's hard enough to argue with the people who do believe, it's even harder to argue with the people who are just curious enough to listen.

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